I was listening to a podcast that I sometimes tune into, and I wanted to share some thoughts on parts of the conversation. I find it relates to the “commit” and “challenge” pillars of this newsletter.
It’s the “Borderlands Trail + Ultrarunning” pod, hosted by Josh Rosenthal. The particular episode is from 9/18/25 where Josh and Kade Wilcox talk with veteran ultra-runner Taylor Spike.
Taylor is a guy who was addicted to drugs who got sober, and who has leaned into running to encourage recovery in himself and others. Along the way he’s discovered he’s got a talent for ultra-distance events, even entering the rarified air of becoming one of a handful of people who have run 200 miles in under 60 hours.
The part of the conversation I want to focus on is about 10mins into the pod, where Josh asks Taylor about suffering, and how doing ultra-marathons is a sort of suffering that he enjoys. And Taylor entirely agrees.
He says that when he sees people suffering on the side of the trail during a race, he tells them, “This is living. This is the max amount of living you can go through. And you know you’re deep into a race and you’re hurt and it’s like, ‘I’m not going to break. Maybe I can’t break.'”
He continues: “You know when you’re doing drugs or drinking or being super, those types of destructive habits or whatever you want to call them — it’s like, you could kill yourself. You know, you could. You could OD… There’s things that are like real life limitations. When you’re running, what, are you going to fucking trip? Who cares? Just push it. And if you fall down, or you’re sick and you’re vomiting and cramping, that’s just your body retaliating because you did too much. You didn’t die.”
He goes on: “All the pain or suffering or losing a kid, losing a job after 20 years.. All these are things that happen. It’s like that — that shit’s just part of the deal, and it doesn’t kill you. I mean, I guess it could. You could turn it into that. But in the moment, that’s living. That’s life. You gotta keep moving forward.”
Josh then says Taylor’s description of the suffering and relating it to life makes him wonder, “Can happy people do this sport?”
And I was nodding along like I understood what they were talking about because I’ve endured a fair amount of physical discomfort myself. And while I’ve never been addicted to anything, I sometimes think distance running does make me somehow mentally stronger. But I had a mental needle scratching across a record moment when Josh asked if happy people can be ultra runners. Of course they can. And ultra runners who are unhappy can work on that.
I am pretty free with disclosing that I have done therapy, and during that process, my therapist suggested that there’s a difference between “endurance” and “resilience.” I talked about that in a previous post. And I think that applies here. You can merely endure pain and suffering. Or, like Taylor, you can recognize that it’s not going to kill you, and you can keep going. Metaphorically, your “race” might be “life,” that you keep going through.*1
I can only speak for myself, but I sometimes do a form of this when I’m running (racing or training, doesn’t matter). When things get hard, I think of my dad. He died in 1999 after a three-year struggle against cancer. During that time, he didn’t miss any work until his last month before he died. Despite cancer that had metastasized to his bones, he walked about 1.5 miles to and from work each day. When things get hard, I often think, “If Dad could do that, I can take one more step.” And so I do. And I repeat that as often as it takes until I realize I’m going to be OK and I am resilient and I get through the hard stuff.
I want to encourage you to find whatever your version of this is. First, consider that all the hardships we may encounter are “the max amount of living” we can do. Second, consider the difference between “endurance” and “resilience,” and lean into the thing that helps you be resilient. I hope you hold onto whatever gets you through your hardest moments, find your one more step, and take it.
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- Not to veer into disturbing territory, but it’s important to recognize that men kill themselves at a rate almost four times that of women. – NIH stats bear that out. And while it’s not a replacement for therapy and or prescriptions, I do think running helps with mental health as much as physical health. That said, if you know someone who’s struggling, this website maintained by the University of British Columbia Psychotherapy Program is a great set of resources. ↩︎